Well. I have read many things about Olivia being lesbain and then Her dating ALex. And Loss was a great episode to raise suspitions. But there are so other reasons why poeple said them and the major one being Olivia's jelwy after Alex left. Like the necklace and the ring. What do yall think?
Well, obviously the episodes "Loss" and "Ghost" have the most potential Olivia/Alex subtext but I see many other instances throughout the show as well like the jewelry you described before. Some say I'm just seeing what I want to see, but I don't care! lol.
Since you're a big Alex/Olivia shipper then you've prob seen this site, but for those of you who haven't, this is a segment from www.sallyforth.info "An Olivia Benson Rave." It's kinda long but the author makes some very good points.
Reasons to think Olivia is gay (or bi):
1. In the very first episode, a very gay male art dealer mentions his open marriage and bisexual wife who prefers women. He looks right at Benson and says, "And YOU should call her". Olivia just smiles while Elliot stares at her quizzically. Here is the first hint that Olivia might be a lesbian or at least that she comes across as a lesbian.
Counter: It doesn't prove anything. Yes, but the subtle hint is there. I posted this on a message board and got responses very quickly from two people who could not have seen the episode in over six months. They both told me that I was reading too much into it. In other words, I was just imagining it.
2. Olivia goes into the Eager Beavers Gentlemen's Club to interview one of the exotic dancers. As she hands the dancer a twenty-dollar bill, Olivia gives her a flirtatious smile. The dancer responds with a quick once over, sort of saying, "I think you're cute too, you hunka burning detective love."
Counter: I am just imagining it.
3. The end of the Loss episode. This is my favorite scene of the entire series. It is an acting tour de force. Basically, the scene is about Alex and Olivia saying good-bye. If you doubt me, imagine the scene without Stabler. Now try to imagine it without Olivia.
Here are two women who are expert at hiding their feelings. Nothing on the show has suggested that they are very close friends. Yet, in this scene, they are both overcome with emotion. Alex can barely look at Olivia without crying. Olivia face is filled with both love and grief. They gaze into each other's eyes for a long time. Their moment quickly passes and they are lost to each other forever. I can't believe that the director said "You're two work friends saying good-bye under stressful circumstances" and this was the result.
Counter: Unbelievably to me, some people see just that - two close friends saying good-bye. Since I don't have a script, I can't say they're wrong. (i.e., I must be imagining it)
4. The mysterious ring on the right hand and the "Alex" necklace.
I read on a board that Mariska wears her mother's ring on her right hand. If it's true, it's beyond me why she would wear that ring when she's in character. But it is possible. I've also noticed that Olivia wore a ring on her right hand throughout much of the fourth season. You usually had to look pretty hard to see it. However, in the two episodes that would likely draw a large gay audience, Olivia's ring is definitely brought to your attention. In fact, in Abomination Olivia uncharacteristically plays with her necklace with her right hand - drawing attention to both the ring and the necklace. The ring was real apparent in "Loss" as Olivia was trying to stop Alex's life from oozing away. In every episode afterwards, the ring is brought into focus at least once. The necklace looks very much like one Alex wore at the end of season 4. Besides, Olivia almost never wore a necklace. Suddenly, she is wearing the same necklace all the time. Usually people do that for sentimental reasons.
Counter: Well, it's hard for me to admit but, in this case, I just could be imagining it. (see rave definition #1)
5. She just plain acts like a lesbian. And by that I do not mean she acts like a man. Of course she's butch because she runs around waving a gun and can kick your ass, but she is not mannish at all. She does, however, act like a person who moves freely in the world. This is possible largely because she doesn't wear "knock me down and f**k me" shoes. For example, she takes long strides when she walks, when she sits, her knees are not necessarily together, and (my personal favorite) she can pull a door out of a wall when the need arises.
Counter: You cannot tell a person's orientation from outward appearance. This applies in both directions.
6. Olivia can't seem to keep her eyes off Vanessa Williams in a skin-tight tennis outfit. As is typical for Olivia, she shows no reaction, but it's clear that she's having a look.
Counter: That girl was so sizzling' that my dead mother would have taken a long cool look at her. (see item 4 next section)
7. Women flirt with Olivia.
Counter: Men flirt with Olivia, too. (See item 5 next section)
8. Mariska Hargitay, during an interview on the Conan O'Brien show, said "everyone" (her word, not mine) thinks she is a lesbian because of Olivia Benson. That implies to me that Olivia Benson is a lesbian or at least pings big time.
Counter: MH also intimated that there is some chemistry between Elliot and Olivia. (see item 6 next section)
9. In Abomination, Olivia gets to say the PC gay stuff (you are born that way, you don't choose it; your orientation cannot be changed) She asks Elliot if he chose to be straight, but never says anything about herself and Elliot doesn't ask. Knows that if a gay man is dating girls, it's very likely that his girlfriend is gay too. I don't know if this is something a straight person would necessarily know. It is an ironic comment on the behavior of closeted gays. And, as I mentioned in #5, there's the scene where we can all see that ring.
Counter: None of this proves anything. I agree, but it does not refute anything about Olivia either. If TPTB wanted us to know Olivia was totally straight, this would have been an easy time to do it. Instead, there were the mixed signals again.
Now for the flip side.
Reasons to think Olivia is straight:
The first five items are the main reasons people on message boards give to prove that Olivia is not gay. I'm going to comment on them together.
1a. The number one reason given is that she had sex with a co-worker, Det. Brian Cassidy (Closure, Episode 10 Season 1).
1b. She went on a date and almost had sex with a male reporter she had just met (The Third Guy, also season 1).
1c. Olivia kept trying to go on a first date with a man named Michael (Countdown Episode 37 Season 2).
1d. An ex-boyfriend, Andy, appears for an entire episode (Escape, season 5).
1e. An ex-boyfriend is a murder victim (Lowdown, season 5).
Counter: If having sex with a member of the opposite sex means you are not gay, then there would be only three gay people in America. What these close encounters show me is that Olivia has problems relating to men. For one, Olivia was drunk when she slept with Cassidy and as she left in a hurry she said, "Don't get used to it". After that, Cassidy was like a puppy and Olivia treated him very coolly, almost cruelly. Also, there was no chemistry between Olivia and Andy whatsoever. In fact, Olivia seemed a little annoyed that he showed up. If anything, there was negative tension between them. Seemed like they dated but it never got serious. And, the that the ex-boyfriend in Lowdown turned out to be gay and he and Olivia had sex only once (no chemistry, she explains).
So what do we have here? Two short-term ex-boyfriends from five or more years ago. Three dates with almost-sex four years ago. Hmmmm. Not very hetero if you ask me.
2. Elliot said "Olivia dates lots of guys". (Pandora, season 4)
Counter:This is our only indication that Olivia has dated since the first season. Over four seasons, not one of these dates turned into a relationship. Also, talking about dates is not inconsistent for a closeted lesbian.
3. Olivia said, "I had a pregnancy scare in college." (Mercy, season 4)
Counter: Lots of lesbians have relations with men when they're young because it's expected, they try to fit in, and they don't understand that they have other options. So this fact alone does not eliminate the possibility that Olivia is gay. In fact, it is the very sort of thing a closeted lesbian would say.
4. Olivia does a double take of a gorgeous black male model in his jockey shorts. In typical Benson fashion, she shows no emotion, but it is clearly a double take.
Counter: The guy was so gorgeous that anyone I would have taken a long cool look at him. (see number 6 above)
5. Men hit on Olivia.
Counter: Women hit on Olivia too.(See number 7 above)
6. The Elliot-Olivia chemistry. On the Caroline Rhea Show, Mariska Hargitay herself said there was some chemistry between Olivia and Elliot.
Counter: To me, the chemistry between Olivia and Elliot seems to be more familial than romantic. I looked at an episode that MH had specifically mentioned on the CR show and I still couldn't see it. Makes me sorta understand the people who don't see what I do in Loss. (See number 8 above). MH also intimated on the Conan O'Brien Show that Olivia seems to be a lesbian.
7. Olivia gave her "Why I don't have a boyfriend speech" to Casey Novak (Serendipity, Season 5).
Counter: none really. It just seemed to be a lame excuse to me ("they all run away when they find out what I do for a living"). I find that hard to believe that would happen with every single guy she went out with. I don't want to get overly psychological about this, but it just doesn't seem like a legitimate reason to me.
Okay. Is she straight? Is she Gay? Is she bi? Only the shadow knows.
Cool article missinCABOT. Ive never read that one before. There is one on afterellen.com though...
SVU's Detective Benson Attracts Lesbian Fans Angie B, May 2004
"thingy" Wolf’s Law and Order franchise dominates television ratings in the US and has proven that hour-long dramas also do well in syndication: The Law and Order mothership and its spinoffs, Law and Order: Special Victims Unit (nicknamed SVU) and Law and Order: Criminal Intent, all rank in the top twenty shows on a weekly basis, even after years on the air.
Although there are no explicitly lesbian characters on any of the Law and Order shows, SVU's Detective Olivia Benson (played by Mariska Hargitay) has attracted a large lesbian following. Although the fictional New York cop is not out or even directly hinted to be gay, she is one of the few characters on TV to exhibit what are often considered to be d**e characteristics--with short hair, a leather jacket, and a gun at her hip, Olivia sits with legs apart, commanding the space around her. She is the protector of the victims who come through her department, a strong woman in a profession filled with men, and often physically or verbally dominates “perps.” Her uniform includes t-shirts, sweaters, slacks and sensible shoes – no heels, no frills, and little jewelry except for what appears to be a man’s watch.
During its five seasons, the detective has had a few unsuccessful dates with men, or ex’s have been met or discussed, but the show deliberately does not focus on the personal lives of its characters so not much more is known about her personal life. What little we have seen of Olivia’s romantic life has led us to believe she's straight, but the fact that those references are few and far between makes it easier for viewers to speculate about the character’s sexuality.
Co-Executive Producer Ted Kotcheff referenced this in the season one dvd interviews. “We tried to give Mariska a boyfriend. Never worked, and I don’t know why. We didn’t want Mariska to have a boyfriend. We didn’t want Benson to have a boyfriend." The audience, he maintains, made it clear they didn't want Benson to have a boyfriend. While the producers might not understand why a strong androgynous female character works better without a boyfriend, we do.
SVU has had a handful of gay-related episodes, including the groundbreaking “Lowdown” this season, which tackled the issue of African American men who do not consider themselves gay but have sex with other men. Another one, Episode 4.21 (“Fallacy”) dealt with a transgendered MTF named Cheryl Avery (played by The L Word’s Katherine Moennig), who killed someone under threat of being outed. Despite her guilt, both Detective Benson and Assistant District Attorney Alexandra Cabot (Stephanie March) tried to help Cheryl work through an inflexible justice system. When Benson's partner Detective Elliot Stabler (Christopher Meloni) appeared uncomfortable with Cheryl's gender, Benson confronted him with the statement, “Sounds like you’ve got a problem.”
Episode 5.8 (“Abomination”) saw the murder of a gay man by his lover's actively homophobic father (referred to as "Dr Homophobe" in the episode). It's the father and anti-gay groups who were portrayed as wackos, and the surviving boyfriend pitched in a sympathetic and positive light. At one point after an inappropriate comment by the more conservative Stabler, Benson responded with, "Oh, so you chose to be heterosexual?" (other times, however, Stabler has been very supportive of gay people).
But with the number of SVU episodes dealing with gay men, it seems odd that in five seasons, no lesbian or bisexual women have been featured characters.
It may be an indication of how far we need to go in the portrayal of lesbians and bisexual women on television that viewers get excited about a character like Benson despite no clear evidence that she's gay. In the case of SVU, producers and stars are most certainly aware of their gay and lesbian fans and the impression that Detective Benson may be a lesbian. On a 2003 appearance on Late Night with Conan O’Brien, Hargitay told this story. MARISKA: A week ago, I'm walking down Seventh Ave. I am with my boyfriend, and he’s got his arm right here [around hip]…. Nobody recognizes me, and all of a sudden this guy yells, and he goes, “Oh my god! Oh my god!” And I go, “What?” You know, I thought someone had been hurt, and I turn around, and he goes, “d***! I thought you were a lesbian!” CONAN: Really? Because of your character on the show? MARISKA: Yes, everyone thinks that, and I don't know why. [smiles and throws up her hands] As she alludes to above, Hargitay is persistantly rumored to be a lesbian herself, despite statements from her to the contrary. In the online SVU fandom, the line between discussion of Detective Benson and the actress who plays her is often blurred; a “Mariska Hargitay Debate Club” was even formed to deal with the topic of Hargitay's public proclamations of heterosexuality and perceived discomfort with her character’s ambiguous sexual orientation. A story circulated widely that Hargitay requested a boyfriend for her character in season five, but the veracity of that rumor is not known; regardless, Olivia did not get a boyfriend in Season 5.
Rumors aside, Hargitay and Meloni both attended the 2004 GLAAD awards as presenters, and Hargitay has become active in rape survivor groups in the New York City area, recognizing that her character (who is the product of a rape) is also an important symbol to real-life victims of sex crimes.
Despite the controversy and ambiguety, the SVU fandom is only growing in popularly among lesbians. Online fan fiction pairing Benson with ADA Alexandra Cabot has reached almost 200 stories, across at least 30 websites and mailing lists with sections devoted to the examination and expansion of the show’s subtext.
Whatever Hargitay or the producers believe about Benson's sexuality, in lieu of few other “soft butch” characters on our television screens, Olivia's attitude and androgyny will likely continue to make her appealing to lesbian and bisexual viewers for a long time to come.
Thanks for posting that article Trublu! I've been to afterellen.com before but I never thought to look for anything on SVU because none of the characters are "definite" lesbians. Thats so cool that they have an article about Olivia Benson!
Even if the writers never reveal that Olivia is bisexual or gay, I'll always enjoy looking for the subtext! Rock on Olivia/Alex shippers! lol
Yeah all those fanfics are awesome! And it seems like even the people behind SVU know about the superb fanfic writers out there. Here is an excerpt from an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about the SVU detectives.
Subtext, psychological and sexual, plays a pivotal role in "SVU's" fandom. More than a few viewers wonder, for example, whether the perennially single Benson shared more than just case files with "SVU's" former assistant district attorney, the so-cool-she's-chilly Alexandra Cabot (Stephanie March). By the time Cabot departed the series in a hail of gunfire last season, an online cult had flowered, devoted to the allegedly never-consummated love between the shows' two bombshell crime fighters.
"SVU's" writers know a fun thing when they see it, and played to the Alex- Olivia cult by bringing Cabot back for a night in the February episode "Ghost. " At one point, Benson is shown arriving at the former A.D.A.'s apartment clutching an overnight bag; soon, the two women are trading meaningful gazes and bemoaning the difficulty of trying to be "someone you aren't." Oh! The tension.
Baer admits tweaking fans with veiled references to Sapphic love. "We read the fan sites. We know that people are into the Alex-Olivia thing. All the codes are in there."
So they admit that they subtext IS there!!! lol For the full article you can go here:
I would guess it would be the heart-shaped necklace. I read somewhere that Mariska sometimes wears her necklace for the Joyful Heart Foundation that says "FEARLESSNESS" on it and that is kinda square-shaped. So if any of those necklaces were to have a connection to Alex...my money is on the heart one.
Here's a pic of the fearlessness necklace. Maybe it's the square one you're thinking of.
Well just from the episodes I dont think they did but for some reason it seems that everyone is kinda saying they seemed like an option. Well I dont know. lol. But i think that if somthing happened it wasnt that big.
Well, based on the episodes that Abbie and Olivia are together in, I have to say that I don't see any hints at any romantic relationship (but like I said before, I haven't been looking as closely as I do when it comes to Olivia and Alex! lol) I think Olivia and Abbie could've been close friends though, especially because of the fact that rape has played such a major part in both of their lives (i.e. Olivia was a child of rape and Abbie was raped in college I believe; not to mention they deal with it often considering their jobs).
But when there is an Olivia/Abbie pairing in a fanfic, I always find it a good and fun read. So even if there's nothing in the episodes, I can still see them as a believable couple.
Hi everyone! Proboards V5 now has it's own built-in version of a shoutbox, so feel free to use this as you would have used the old CBox! Please adhere to the same guidelines we use on the forum. Enjoy! - Trublu
rambabe: rollinswannabe: The forum is above. As you can tell there hasn't been much posting lately. Feel free to browse any of the topics and comment. Let me know if you would like me to add info about the newer episodes and any other info about the show..
Apr 16, 2017 23:59:56 GMT -5
rambabe: Kelli Giddish was in the Season 8 episode 'Outsider' as a rape victim.
Apr 17, 2017 0:00:56 GMT -5
adrainsmith: This show is incredible, the charactor of Olivia Benson is the most addicting person on the show, you just can't get enough of her or the crime plots that continue to astound after 14 years!
Oct 14, 2017 1:37:33 GMT -5